Their seed is established with them in their sight, and their offspring before their eyes.
Job is answering Zophar, who had just insisted that the joy of the wicked is short. Job replies with the opposite fact — godless men prosper and watch their children prosper — and he says it as a man whose own children are dead.
Kelly weighs this verse together with the line that follows, about houses safe from fear.
Job describes the wicked in prosperity in strong terms. "Their offspring are established in their presence, and their descendants before their eyes." It is not just one here and there. The wicked take root in the world; they are at home there. "Their houses are safe from fear, and no rod of God is upon them." They come under no special chastening.
Zophar had built his case on the rare event. Job answers with the common one.
Zophar limited himself to the special cases where God deals in judgment with some very wicked men… Now what made Job tremble so when he saw wickedness prosper? As he says here, "Why do the wicked live?" He says, "I can understand it so far. I can fully understand God casting down wicked men — it is only what they deserve. But it is not the fact, for the great mass of them seem to flourish in their wickedness for the time." "Their offspring are established in their presence." As a general rule, their prosperity was not passing away like a dream, as Zophar pretended; it was the other way round.
Ridout notices what the verse costs the man speaking it.
Their families grow up about them, and all stays quiet without the rod of God falling upon them. Flocks and herds increase. His children — in sad contrast to the now childless speaker — are like a group of lambs skipping about the home, and inside you hear the sound of tambourine and harp and pipe.
These prospering men want nothing to do with the God who gave them everything. Kelly presses what their lives say.
"They spend their days in prosperity"… "Therefore they say to God, Depart from us." Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the picture the violent Zophar had painted. "For we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what profit do we get if we pray to Him?" It is not meant that they say that to man, but that is what their conduct says to God.
Grant traces the prosperity back to its source.
They may think their prosperity is in their own hands, that they have only themselves to thank for this. How false indeed! God is the Giver of every temporal thing as well as spiritual. But men do not give God the credit due to Him.
Job does not swing to the opposite extreme. Kelly marks where he grants the other side.
Here he acknowledges the other side. It is no less true that God does not leave Himself without witness. He presses the point that the present world is no expression of God's moral government. But he acknowledges that a divine blow falls on them in the middle of their seeming prosperity. In a moment their lamp goes out.
The verse fixes attention on what is visible — in their presence, before their eyes. Grant turns to Asaph, who wrote Psalm 73 with the same puzzle before him.
Asaph observed this also, as he records in Psalm 73:3-9. In verses 16-17 he adds, "It was too painful for me — until I went into the sanctuary of God; then I understood their end." He learned that God's accounts are not settled in this life: there is a future to take into account.
Hamilton Smith explains what changes once a person steps inside.
The sanctuary speaks of the presence of God. Outside the sanctuary he looks at evil without God. Inside he views everything, and everyone, with God. What a difference this makes! Outside, he had seen everything in relation to time. Inside, he sees everything in relation to eternity… Man — always short-sighted — can take only a short view. God, with His far-reaching vision, sees the end from the beginning.
- Sight. The verse fixes on what the eye can see. Godless men watch their families flourish, at home in the world.
- Fact. Job answers Zophar's theory with the ordinary case. Most of the wicked flourish for a time.
- Sting. The man describing a full household has just buried his own children. That is what makes the question unbearable.
- Silence. Everything they enjoy comes from God. Yet their lives tell Him to depart — the gift taken, the Giver refused.
- End. Job admits the blow does sometimes fall. But the riddle only settles in the sanctuary, where time gives way to eternity and God's accounts are still open.
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of +God upon them.
Zophar, one of Job's friends, had just insisted that God cuts the wicked off. Job answers by pointing at something anyone can see: the homes of people who want nothing to do with God often stand untouched, with no trouble in sight.
Job's questions land on a friend who has no answer for them:
Zophar had spoken of the wicked being cut off, but Job has questions now that Zophar does not even try to answer. Sometimes wicked men are cut off, but some wicked men live and become old and become mighty in power above others (v.7). Why? Their children often get along well with hardly a setback (v.8). They seem to have nothing to fear and the discipline of God's government seems not to apply to them (v.9).
Job is not pointing at a rare exception. One writer states the fact and refuses to explain it away:
It is not just that you find one here and there. The wicked really take root in the world; they are at home there. "Their houses are safe from fear, and no rod of God is upon them." They come under no special chastening… They are the ones who enjoy the world, if you leave God out and take the value people put on this present life. There is no denying the fact, explain it or not, if you look at the world as it is.
The facts cut both ways, and one writer names them bluntly:
Zophar stuck to the particular cases where God judged some especially wicked men. Such cases do happen now and then… But that is very unusual. Other people swear to a lie, keep their money, and try to keep their good name, while all the time they are storing up wrath for the day of wrath… "Their houses are safe from fear." A robber breaks into one godly man's house; fire burns down another godly man's house over his head. Meanwhile here are wicked men of the worst kind, and no trouble like this ever reaches them!
So the quiet house settles nothing yet. One writer says Job's friends read the verdict too early:
The day is coming when the ungodly, instead of prospering, will be like chaff that the wind drives away. (Psalm 1) The friends moved that day forward. They fixed their eyes, blind as they were, on the present, like much of the Christian world, instead of waiting, as Job did, for the resurrection and the kingdom… Look at these two men, each with a full cup, one of happiness, the other of misery; both lying dead together. Appearances prove nothing except the haste and folly of those who judge before the time.
One writer points to a man in the Psalms who faced the same puzzle and found the way through:
Asaph noticed this too, as he records in Psalm 73… He learned that God's accounts are not settled in this life: there is a future to be considered.
Anyone who envies the untroubled house should weigh who the rod is for:
God does not bring this judgment on the unsaved, because they are not sons, and so they go without chastening. For Christians, though, it is a present reality that we do well to remember. A Christian is often amazed to find that he cannot get away with what he sees an unbeliever doing every day.
One writer answers the verse in a line, then listens to what such a home is telling God:
"No rod of God is upon them." Ah, but there will be!… "Therefore they say to God, 'Depart from us.'" Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the picture violent Zophar had painted. "We do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what profit do we get if we pray to Him?" This does not mean they say it out loud to people. It means that is what their conduct says to God.
- The claim — Job answers Zophar's rule that the wicked are always cut off: many live long, grow powerful, and see their children thrive.
- The evidence — no rod touches some very bad houses, while robbers and fire hit godly ones. The neat formula does not fit the facts.
- The misreading — the friends judged before the time. Appearances prove nothing: two men with opposite cups lie dead together.
- The correction — God does not settle His accounts in this life. The untouched house is a delay, not an acquittal.
- The reversal — the rod marks sons, not enemies. A life no discipline ever touches is the more frightening one, and that safe house is telling God to keep away.
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf.
Job is answering Zophar, who had just insisted that evil men are always cut down in this life. Job answers by pointing at the farmyard of the wicked. Every bull breeds. No cow loses her calf. Success runs unbroken in the hands of people who want nothing to do with God.
Zophar's position was simple: God settles accounts with wicked men here and now. That confidence was worth little.
Zophar had no difficulty at all. That is usually the case with people who know very little. They imagine they know everything. So Zophar keeps to this. There is a righteous God above, and unrighteous, wicked people below. And God always deals with these wicked people now. That was not true. God has always allowed a large part of the world to prosper, to all appearances, in their evil. The reason is that the time of judgment has not yet come.
Job answers with a list. He asks why some wicked men do so well.
Sometimes wicked men are cut off, but some wicked men live and become old and become mighty in power above others (v.7). Why? Their children often get along well with hardly a setback (v.8). They seem to have nothing to fear and the discipline of God's government seems not to apply to them (v.9). "Their bull breeds without fail; their cow calves and does not miscarry" (v.10). Meanwhile the righteous often find just the opposite experience.
Remember who is describing this happy home.
They live to old age and become mighty in power. Their families grow up about them, and all stays quiet without the rod of God falling upon them. Flocks and herds increase. His children — in sad contrast to the now childless speaker — are like a group of lambs skipping about the home. Inside, you hear the sound of tambourine, harp and pipe.
Ease like this is not silent. It has an answer for God.
Everything was flourishing… "They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Therefore, they say to God, Depart from us." Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the violent Zophar had painted. "For we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? and what profit should we have if we pray to Him?" They do not say this to other people. But this is what their conduct says to God.
So where does all this prosperity come from?
They may think their prosperity is in their own hands, that they have only themselves to thank for this. How false indeed! God is the Giver of every temporal thing as well as spiritual. But men do not give God the credit due to Him (v.16). No wonder Job says, "The counsel of the wicked is far from me."
If thriving cattle prove nothing about a man's standing with God, neither do Job's sores and losses. Job's reply points forward.
A day is coming when the wicked will no longer prosper. They will be like chaff that the wind drives away (Psalm 1). The friends put the time too early. They fixed their eyes on the present — sadly, they were blinded — instead of waiting, as Job did, for the resurrection and the kingdom… Job looks on to the judgment, when the evil-doer must suffer. So let no one misjudge God's ways, or draw unfounded conclusions from His government now. Look at two men, each with a full cup — one of happiness, the other of misery. Both lie dead together. Appearances prove nothing except the haste and folly of those who judge before the time.
Job had not yet found his own answer, but he had found the right posture.
Although he himself had reached no solution to his problem, he could at least urge his friends to "judge nothing before the time."
- The rule — Zophar taught that God always strikes the wicked now. Job answers that God lets much of the world prosper in its evil, because the time of judgment has not yet come.
- The evidence — A bull that never fails and a cow that never miscarries. That is Job's proof, while godly people often meet the opposite.
- The contrast — Job describes other people's skipping children and growing herds. He himself has no children left.
- The ingratitude — Every temporal thing comes from God's hand. Yet the answer from full barns is "Depart from us" — said by conduct, not by mouth.
- The verdict — Prosperity proves nothing about where a person stands with God. So judge nothing before the time, and look on to the resurrection and the kingdom.
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
Job answers his friends by pointing at the other side of life: men who want nothing to do with God often have happy homes full of children at play. Job asks them to account for it.
Job is not describing a rare exception. He is describing the world as anyone can see it.
Job describes the wicked in prosperity in strong terms. "Their offspring are established in their presence, and their descendants before their eyes." It is not merely that you have one here and there; the wicked really take root in the world, they are at home there. "Their houses are safe from fear, and no rod of God is upon them." They come under no special chastening… "They send out their little boys like a flock, and their children dance." It is they who enjoy the world, if you leave out God and take man's appreciation of present life. There is no disputing that this is the fact, account for it or not, if one looks at the world as it is.
The man drawing this picture of children at play had lost his own. That is what gives the verse its edge.
He looks at the other side, at the case of the prosperous wicked, and reminds Zophar that evil men often go on unchecked. They live to old age and become mighty in power… His children — in sad contrast to the now childless speaker — are like a group of lambs skipping about the home, and you hear the sound of tambourine and lyre and pipe there.
The dancing does not stand alone. One writer looks at the whole happy scene and at the company it keeps.
It is a serious thing to find all that in such bad company — a solemn warning for those who are given up… "They say to God, Depart from us." Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the violent Zophar had painted. "For we do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what profit do we get if we pray to Him?" It is not meant that they say that to man, but that is what their conduct says to God.
Job had no answer to his own question. Another man saw the same thing and was troubled by it too.
Their children enjoy life with its music and dancing, and they spend their days in prosperity… In other words, they know nothing of Job's painful experiences all through their life. Then they die without suffering. Asaph observed this also, as he records in Psalm 73:3-9. In verses 16-17 he added, "But when I thought how to understand this, it seemed to me a wearisome task, until I went into the sanctuary of God; then I discerned their end." He learned that God's accounts are not settled in this life: there is a future to be considered.
Job himself was not blind to the other side. But there was one thing he had still to learn.
He presses the point that the present world is no expression of God's moral government. But he acknowledges that in the middle of men's seeming prosperity a divine blow falls on them. In a moment their candle goes out. So he does allow for exceptional dealings. There was another kind of dealing that he did not yet see. This was what he had to learn. God works among His own by chastening, trial, or discipline. He does this just as surely as He may lay His hand on the wicked in solemn judgment.
One writer turns the scene into a question for anyone who finds such company good fun.
What a description we get of the world in Job: "They sing to the tambourine and the lyre and rejoice to the sound of the pipe. They spend their days in prosperity… Therefore they say to God, 'Depart from us, for we do not desire the knowledge of your ways'" (ch. 21:12-14)! And can you, dear reader, feel happy in making one of such a company? How true it is for a believer seeking his amusement in such a way, "Even in laughter the heart may ache, and the end of joy may be grief." Prov. 14:13.
- Sight. The wicked are not rare exceptions. They take root in the world, are at home in it, and enjoy it more than anyone.
- Sting. A childless man describes other men's children skipping like lambs. That contrast is what makes his question hurt.
- Sound. The same house that fills with music tells God to leave; the words are never spoken aloud, but the conduct says them.
- Settlement. God's accounts are not closed in this life. Asaph found the answer only in God's presence, where he saw their end.
- Side. Ask which company would make you happy — a home full of music, with no desire to know God's ways.
They shout to the tambour and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the pipe.
Zophar had said that the wicked are cut off. Job answers with what he sees instead: a household of the wicked full of children, music and ease, while the man who fears God sits in ashes.
The verse sits inside a longer scene of untouched comfort. One writer sets the happy children of the wicked against the man describing them, who has lost his own:
He looks at the other side, at the case of the prosperous wicked. With ability equal to Zophar's, he reminds him that evil men often go on unchecked. They live to old age and become mighty in power. Their families grow up about them, and all stays quiet without the rod of God falling upon them. Flocks and herds increase. His children — in sad contrast to the now childless speaker — are like a group of lambs skipping about the home, and inside you hear the sound of tambourine, harp and pipe.
These are the instruments of a party. Measured by what people value in life now, this is life at its best:
It is not just that you have one here and there. The wicked really take root in the world; they are at home there. "Their houses are safe from fear, and no rod of God is upon them." They come under no special chastening… It is they that enjoy the world, if you leave out God, and take man's appreciation of present life. There is no disputing that such is the fact, account for it or not, if one looks at the world as it is.
Job is not just venting. He is asking questions that his friends' rule about the wicked cannot handle:
Zophar had spoken of the wicked being cut off, but Job has questions now that Zophar does not even try to answer. Sometimes wicked men are cut off, but some wicked men live and become old and become mighty in power above others (v.7). Why? Their children often get along well with hardly a setback (v.8). They seem to have nothing to fear and the discipline of God's government seems not to apply to them (v.9). "Their bull breeds without fail; their cow calves and does not miscarry" (v.10). Often the righteous find just the opposite.
Two verses later the same people tell God to leave them alone:
"They send out their little boys like a flock, and their children dance" — everything prosperous and smiling — "They sing to the tambourine and the lyre and rejoice to the sound of the pipe." It is serious to find all that with such bad company. It is a solemn warning to those who are given up… "Therefore they say to God, 'Depart from us!'" Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the violent Zophar had painted… They do not say that to man, but that is what their conduct says to God.
Job does not say the wicked escape for good. The reckoning comes, but he places it later:
While it is true, as the psalmist tells us, that the ungodly are "like chaff that the wind drives away" (Ps. 1:4), Job reminds his hearers that this seldom takes place in the present life; it is reserved for the "judgment."
The mistake of the three friends was one of timing. They read the present as the final verdict:
The friends put the time too early. They fixed their eyes (blinded, alas!) on the present, as the Christian world does, instead of waiting, like Job, for the resurrection and the kingdom… Look at these two men, each with a full cup, one of happiness, the other of misery. Both lie dead together. Appearances prove nothing but the haste and folly of those who judge before the time.
The same puzzle troubled a later writer, and it broke only when he changed his vantage point:
Asaph observed this also, as he records in Psalm 73:3-9, and added in verses 16-17, "It was too painful for me — until I went into the sanctuary of God; then I understood their end." He learned that God's accounts are not settled in this life: there is a future to be considered.
- The music is real. Job is not exaggerating; the wicked do enjoy this world, if you leave God out and measure life by what man values in it.
- The music disproves the theory. Zophar said the wicked are cut off. Job points to a household of the godless dancing to tambourine and harp, with no rod of God upon them.
- The music has words. The same people who rejoice at the pipe tell God to depart — not in speech, but in how they live.
- The music is not the verdict. Psalm 1 says the wicked are like chaff that the wind drives away. Job says that seldom happens in this life; God holds it over for the judgment.
- The music ends elsewhere. Both the happy man and the miserable one lie dead at last, so present appearances settle nothing; Job waits for the resurrection and the kingdom.
They spend their days in prosperity, and in a moment go down to Sheol.
Zophar had just insisted that the triumph of the wicked is short and their collapse certain. Job answers from life as he has seen it: people who ignore God enjoy comfort to the end, then die without the long agony he himself is bearing.
(A note on wording: the writers quoted below use an older translation — "they spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave." ESV says "prosperity" instead of "wealth," and "Sheol" instead of "the grave." Both point to a death with no drawn-out misery.)
Job starts where Zophar stopped.
Zophar had spoken of the wicked being cut off. But Job now has questions that Zophar does not even try to answer. Sometimes wicked men are cut off. But some wicked men live on, grow old, and become more powerful than others (v.7). Why? Their children often get along well, with hardly a setback (v.8)... Their children enjoy life, with its music and dancing. They spend their days in wealth, and "in a moment go down to the grave" (vv.11-12). In other words, all through life they know nothing of the painful experiences Job is having, and then they die without suffering.
This is not about one rare exception.
It is not just that you find one here and there. The wicked really take root in the world; they are at home there. "Their houses are safe from fear, and no rod of God is upon them." They come under no special discipline... They are the ones who enjoy the world, if you leave God out and take man's own estimate of present life. No one can dispute that this is the fact, whether you can explain it or not, if you look at the world as it is.
The sting for Job is the contrast with his own case. Their exit is quick; his own affliction drags on.
It was not the case, he affirmed, that the wicked were always overwhelmed with disaster. On the contrary, they often lived, became old, mighty in power and prosperous, with their seed established in their sight. They had times of merriment and pleasure and at the end had no long drawn out misery such as he was enduring, but "in a moment go down to the grave [or, Sheol]." And all the time their attitude to God was, "Depart from us, for we desire not the knowledge of Thy ways."
Verse 14 begins with "therefore." The comfort of verse 13 leads straight into it.
"They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Therefore, they say to God, Depart from us." Job's words are far more solemn and far more true than the violent picture Zophar had painted. "We do not want to know Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what would we gain if we prayed to Him?" This does not mean they say that to other people. It means their way of life says it to God.
Job could not explain it. He could still see that his friends' rule was false.
One man dies quietly, surrounded by great prosperity — as the psalm says, "The wicked have no pangs in their death" — while another is cut off in misery. Both alike reach the same end in the grave. Since this is so, how wrong it is for his friends to lay down a fixed rule: that trouble in this life was always a sign of sin, and prosperity always a sign of righteousness, in the people it fell on. He had found no answer to his own problem. Even so, he could urge his friends to judge nothing before the time.
Job's answer is a matter of timing.
The friends judged too early. They fixed their blinded eyes on the present, as the professing Christian world does, instead of waiting, as Job did, for the resurrection and the kingdom... Look at these two men, each with a full cup, one of happiness, the other of misery; both lying dead together. Appearances prove nothing but the haste and folly of those who judge before the time.
Comfort can carry a person along, unaware, right to the end.
They may be like the man asleep in his canoe, carried along unaware on the calm current that flowed without a sound toward the great falls of Niagara. Blinded by earthly prosperity and the absorbing interests of this life, they drift on until at last they "pass away" altogether, and are gone. They reach their end in time. They may die rich, only to spend a poor eternity.
- Observed. Job points to a plain fact: the wicked often prosper to the end, then die without the long pain he is bearing.
- Rooted. They are not rare exceptions — they take root in the world and are at home in it, with no visible rod of God upon them.
- Therefore. Comfort breeds contempt. Their way of life tells God "Depart from us," even if they never say the words.
- Premature. Reading wealth as God's approval and pain as guilt is judging before the time. The happy man and the miserable man both end in the grave.
- Deferred. The accounts are not closed in this life. Job waits for the resurrection and the kingdom — and a man may die rich only to spend a poor eternity.
And they say unto God, Depart from us, for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways!
Job's friends keep insisting that the wicked always come to ruin. He answers by pointing at the world as it is: men who prosper, live long, die at ease — and then tell God to leave them alone.
Job's argument rests on the picture he paints just before this verse: long life, growing families, music, and no discipline from God.
He looks at the other side, at the case of the prosperous wicked, and points out that evil men often go on unchecked. They live to old age and become mighty in power. Their families grow up about them, and all stays quiet without the rod of God falling upon them. Flocks and herds increase. His children are like a group of lambs skipping about the home — a sad contrast to Job, who has now lost his own. Inside the home you hear tambourine, harp and pipe. All their days are in prosperity until the end comes. Yet these very men said to God, "Depart from us! We do not desire the knowledge of Your ways." Like Pharaoh, they ask, "What is the Almighty that we should serve Him?"
Few people ever say these words out loud. Job is reading a life, not quoting a conversation. Zophar, mentioned here, is one of the friends arguing with him.
"They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Therefore, they say to God, Depart from us." Job's words are far more solemn and more true than the violent picture Zophar had painted. "We do not desire the knowledge of Your ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what do we gain if we pray to Him?" It is not meant that they say that to man, but that is what their conduct says to God.
These men are not refusing every god. They will keep one they invented themselves. What they will not have is God as He has shown Himself to be.
They would gladly have a god of their own imagination, one like themselves, who can make light of sin and tolerate all sorts of evil. The God of the Bible, the God of Christianity, the God of the Cross, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, does not suit such unbelieving reasoners. Their deep cry of heart to Him is, "Depart from us! We do not desire the knowledge of Your ways."
The same heart shows up in something anyone can watch: what a conversation is allowed to include.
Why is it that men can talk freely about the world, its business and material progress? They can even talk about moral things, questions of reform, and so on, and they gladly tell you their minds about them. But the moment you speak of God, or Christ, the moment someone sets out the truth and the holiness of God, a soul that is estranged from God shrinks back into silence at once. And the silence shows a state of soul which says to God, "Depart from us! We do not desire the knowledge of Your ways."
Their unbroken comfort is the very thing that troubled Job. Does God's silence mean He is indulgent? And is prayer really the waste they take it for?
Can we imagine that God is indulgent with such an attitude? Certainly not! He shows marvellous patience, but this does not mean indifference. Those who defy God are in a far more dangerous condition than they realise. Future judgment is infinitely more terrible than Job's few years of suffering. They consider they have no profit in praying to God. Such is the self-centred pride of man! They are after present advantage. What they do not know is that even in this life they may find great profit in depending on God's grace.
These words are a request of a kind. The frightening thing is that God grants it at last.
No creature is enough for himself. Even the whole creation is not enough for the creature God has set in intelligent relationship with Himself. God alone can satisfy the heart of man. Unspeakable woe must be the portion of those who said to God, "Depart from us." In the day of judgment they must hear Him say to them, "Depart from me, you cursed." The souls that will not have Him in time need not expect Him to have them in eternity.
- Depart — spoken by a life. Job is not quoting anyone's speech. What a man's conduct says to God is his real answer to Him.
- Depart — from a God unlike us. They reject God as He actually is. A god of their own design would be welcome.
- Depart — heard in silence. A soul far from God can discuss anything except God. Watch the silence when someone names Christ.
- Depart — met with patience. Unbroken prosperity is not God's approval. He is patient, not indifferent, and the danger is greater than the comfortable man feels.
- Depart — finally granted. The one thing these men ask of God is the one thing He grants at last: "Depart from me, you cursed." Those who will not have Him now cannot expect Him to have them then.