Job 12:1–13

Zophar's speech was full of extreme dogmatism, and that no doubt prompted Job to begin his reply on a very sarcastic note. His words, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you," have almost passed into a proverb, used against the dogmatism of self-conceit.

Job's reply to Zophar was understandably sarcastic, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you!" (v.2). Zophar had implied that he had an inborn wisdom that Job lacked. Job rightly reproved him: "But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you" (v.3). In fact, Zophar had said only what was common knowledge: everyone knew these things.

Job answers in the next chapters (12-14) and no doubt he repays them too much in their own coin. Well, they deserved that rebuke. "But I have understanding as well as you." Here he was far more considerate than they were, because he did not take the place of being superior. "I have understanding as well as you" — "I am not inferior" — he does not say, "I am superior" — "I am not inferior to you."

It is astonishing to see how little discernment Job's friends showed at that time. But are we today more intelligent than they were? Do we not often judge before the time? Do God's children not often judge by appearances, despite the solemn warning, "Judge not, that you be not judged"? No wonder Job answers with biting irony, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you!" What was the use of reciting truisms in flowery language? Such speeches brought neither comfort nor light to the sufferer.

Stung by the charges and platitudes of the friends, Job meets them with bitter sarcasm, followed quickly by the charge of their mocking him. They are at ease, while cherishing their unjust suspicions of him. He almost compares them to robbers, who hold their booty undisturbed (verses 1-6).

Let us note this principle well, for it is greatly needed in this day. Self-inflation — being taken up with our own faithfulness in testimony — breeds critical feelings in our hearts toward the people of God around us. It also puts us right out of the place of intercession with God for them. Need we be surprised, also, if our improper airs draw out from others the sarcastic remark, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you" (Job 12:2)?

None of us can boast of being the people with whom wisdom shall die. Still, God in His grace was pleased to give us a little light. We should thank Him for every ray He has been willing to send into our souls. We should seek His grace to make good use of the light we have received. Only then will we be able to ask for more with confidence.

Job's reply to Zophar was sarcastic, and you can see why: "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you!" Zophar had implied that he had a natural wisdom Job lacked. Job was right to correct him: "But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you." In fact, Zophar had said only what was common knowledge: everyone knew these things.

"But I have understanding as well as you." Here he was far more considerate than they were. He did not put himself in the higher place. "I have understanding as well as you" — "I am not inferior." He does not say, "I am superior." He says, "I am not inferior to you." "Who does not know such things as these?" They were only talking platitudes, moral platitudes, that anyone with the slightest knowledge of God already knew. They gave no light on the very difficult question. How could a devout, God-fearing man fall into such terrible sorrow and suffering? They did not add one atom to that question.

What was the use of reciting truisms in flowery language? Such speeches brought neither comfort nor light to the sufferer. "Who does not know the same?" asks Job. He then shows that he had thought their questions over carefully long ago. He can develop them in all their variety — not in a one-sided way, as Zophar did.

The charges and platitudes of the friends sting Job. He meets them with bitter sarcasm, and then charges them with mocking him. They are at ease, while holding on to their unjust suspicions of him.

He too can speak well about the majesty of God in all His ways. But this cannot settle the question: how can a man who is a sinner be just before God? A man may speak well about the stars and the stones. He may have all the learning of this world. Yet he may still be unable to say clearly how God justifies the sinner.

They could not understand why such a perfect and upright man as Job should be tried so hard. So, after seven days of silence, their hints and false charges drove that patient man to cry out in bitterness of soul, "Miserable comforters are you all." They might have helped in an ordinary case. But here an outstandingly righteous man had lost every earthly possession in a way never seen before, and their tongues were dumb. They did not understand God's ways with His own at all. So they made Job feel how completely unable they were to help him, and threw him back on God Himself.

Stung by the charges and platitudes of the friends, Job meets them with bitter sarcasm, followed quickly by the charge of their mocking him. They are at ease, while holding on to their unjust suspicions of him. He almost compares them to robbers who keep their stolen goods undisturbed.

You mock me; I am nothing but a laughingstock. You as my neighbours come to me and say, "He calls on God, that He should answer him." Yet I am the just, the perfect man; you make sport of me. You are at ease and treat the one who is down, overwhelmed by misfortune, with contempt.

A mockery to his neighbours am I, / One calling on God, and He heard him: / The just, upright, one a mockery!

Job felt the sadness of his friends mocking him and ridiculing him, though he was just and blameless (v.4). He had been a lamp, giving light. Now these friends despised him in their thoughts. They were comfortable and at ease, and ready to put down those whose feet slip. He even suggests that his friends were acting like robbers who were prospering, since they were stealing away his integrity and provoking God while pretending to speak on God's behalf.

That phrase exactly described the situation. These three men were all at ease. Nothing was wrong with them. God had not taken them up, as He had Job, and allowed the devil to do all the evil he could... "The man ready to slip with his feet" — that is what Job felt he was — "is like a lamp despised in the thoughts of a man at ease." If he gives way, what good is the lamp? A lamp needs to be held steady, and a slipping man cannot hold it. It waves and waves down into the mud. But they were all at ease, sitting in judgment on him.

They were only talking platitudes — moral platitudes that anyone with the slightest knowledge of God already knew. They gave no light at all on this very difficult question: how could a devout, God-fearing man fall under such crushing sorrow and affliction? They did not contribute one bit to that question.

Zophar spoke with such extreme certainty that it no doubt prompted Job to begin his reply on a very sarcastic note. His words, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you," have almost become a proverb, used against the man whose self-conceit makes him sure he is right. He claimed to have understanding equal to his friends. In verse 5 he reminded them that he stood in this slippery place, shining like a warning lamp, while men in easy and comfortable circumstances — his friends — despised him.

Job felt the sadness of it. His friends mocked and ridiculed him, though he was just and blameless (v.4). He had been a lamp, giving light. Now these friends, comfortably at ease, despised him in their thoughts. They were ready to put down those whose feet slip.

They were all at ease, these three men. Nothing was the matter with them. They had not, like Job, been taken up by God, who then let the devil do all the evil he could. "He who is ready to slip with his feet" — that is what Job felt he was — "is like a lamp despised in the thought of the man who is at ease." Why? A lamp needs to be held steady. If a man is slipping with his feet, what good is his lamp? It waves about and sinks down into the mud. But they were all at ease, sitting in judgment on him.

You mock me; I am nothing but a laughingstock. You as my neighbours come to me and say, "He calls on God, that He should answer him." Yet I am the just, the perfect man; you make sport of me. You are at ease and treat the one who is down, overwhelmed by misfortune, with contempt.

They are at ease, while nursing unjust suspicions of him. He almost compares them to robbers, who keep their loot undisturbed.

Friends should show pity to a sufferer. That is a basic principle. Otherwise, under the stress of trial — as some have translated it — "he should forsake the fear of the Almighty." … But the hard principle these friends were applying knew no mercy and felt no sympathy. In his hour of desperate need they proved completely unfit to be friends. They are not the "brother born for adversity." … Yet he had asked nothing unreasonable of them — no money, no rescue from the enemy, only a little sympathy.

We deceive ourselves if we think we must be right when we grieve those whom God is disciplining. This is often very far from being the case. The Lord said in Zechariah, "I am very angry with the nations that are at ease; I was only a little angry, and they made the affliction worse." … We are more often, perhaps, in God's mind, and acting as living vessels of the Spirit, when we comfort such people. And I am sure it was so in Job's case. Had his former friends known God's way, they would have dealt very differently with him.

In verse 6 Job challenged the main position that his friends had taken. They said that God always rewards good people with prosperity in this life, and always brings disaster on the wicked. Job said it was not so. There were cases where robbers prospered and where those who provoked God were secure.

The charges and empty sayings of the friends sting Job. He answers with bitter sarcasm, and then charges them with mocking him. They are at ease, while they hold on to their unfair suspicions of him. He almost compares them to robbers, who keep their loot undisturbed (verses 1-6).

There had been that great robber Nimrod. He first began to hunt beasts, and then to subdue men for his own purposes. God gave him no authority to do it. And yet God allowed it. Nimrod built great cities and became a great man. "The tents of robbers prosper, and those who provoke God are secure; into whose hand God brings abundantly." That is the present state of the earth. Any state of the earth since man fell is no adequate proof of what God thinks of people. It is not bringing out His judgment of men yet. God may deal with a particular case now and then. But that is an exception. His ordinary way is to leave things, to all appearance, to run their own course. And that is just why a judgment must come. Things have not been judged according to God, but they will be.

Job meets the theory that God repays everyone in this life with a direct denial and disproof. And this was not limited to man. Every form of living nature declares the same fact. The beasts of the earth, the birds of the air and the fish of the sea all show that the violent get the better of the weak. God is sovereign. For that very reason their law of government is a false argument, and to apply it to him is unjust.

Faith finds the answer to the painful riddle of human affairs in the secret of God. That answer does not come from studying facts. It does not come from long experience of God's apparent dealings as the Governor of the world. Power is His alone, and He is the only and the righteous God. Yet weigh events and the actual state of human society by the light of divine truth. Nothing is more constantly obvious than this: everywhere the world appears to reverse the known and eternal principles of divine government. "The tents of robbers prosper, and those who provoke God are secure" (Job 12:6). Evildoers go unpunished now. Truth is continually crushed, and its servants are often persecuted. In every age this has tested the faith and patience of God's saints (Jeremiah 12:1; Habakkuk 1:1-4).

Job knew that the tents of robbers prosper and that those who provoke God are secure (Job 12:6). But Eliphaz thought that "in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon" the wicked (Job 15:21). What Eliphaz thought was sometimes right, but not always. The writer of Psalm 73 knew that, and we know it from what is all around us. God has allowed Satan to become the god and prince of this world. Satan has authority to dispose in some way of the kingdoms of this world (Luke 4:6). Once we realise this, we will not be perplexed at the prosperity of the wicked.

This is also in answer to Zophar's argument. Zophar had spoken of the greatness of God. The wisdom which Zophar had tried to impress upon him is so elementary that the beasts themselves know something about it.

"But ask now the beasts" — there is something triumphant here. "Why," he says, "the very beasts know more than you, and prove more than all your speeches!"… That is, the whole creation — God's lower creation on the earth — is a proof that things are not yet according to God. Do they not prey on one another? Do not the great swallow up the small? And is not man the one who deals death to beasts and birds and fish, and everything else, for his own pleasure? I do not mean only for food, but to please himself at all costs.

He proceeds then, in verse 7, to show far more than Zophar did, the greatness and wisdom of God. He appeals to creation, the beasts, the birds, the earth, the fish as witnesses of the great variety of actions of power and greatness on the part of the Creator. "The hand of the Lord has done this" (v.9).

In that hand of power, Job says, is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind — not only his own breath, but his three friends' breath too. He would not let them think of themselves as detached onlookers, free to judge others while no one judged them.

Nature itself, even more fully than the Old Testament, is an object lesson, a divine picture-writing, a teaching by type. It surely is. We may not yet hold the full key to it, but in every age its lessons have been taught and learnt — most simply, perhaps, in the earliest ages. As we grow older we lose the unsuspecting faith of childhood, which in many respects is the truest wisdom.

The unbeliever may tell us that God is to be known in creation. Did anyone ever find Him out there? No doubt creation does prove the existence of a Creator. The first chapter of the letter to the Romans says: "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Creation gives a testimony the nations were bound to receive. Had they received it, a higher light would certainly have shone on them. But they did not receive it. Instead they worshipped the things that were made, rather than the One who made them. Philosophers talk of rising from nature up to nature's God. But nature is a ruin, and man himself is a ruin inside that ruin. Instead of rising to nature's God, he makes a god of nature, and sinks below the level of a beast.

In verse 6 Job challenged the main position that his friends had taken. They said that God always rewards the godly with prosperity on earth, and brings disaster down on the wicked. He said it was not so. There were cases when robbers prospered, and men who provoked God were safe. As proof he pointed to what anyone can see in the lower creation — beasts, birds and fishes. He was pointing, we suppose, to the disorder that man's sin has brought in even there. The weaker meet disaster and destruction from the stronger, and all of this happens by God's permission.

The whole creation — the lower creation of God on the earth — is a proof that things are not yet according to God. Do they not prey on one another? Do not the great swallow up the small? And is not man the great dealer of death to beasts and birds and fishes, and everything else, for his own pleasure? I do not mean merely for food, but to please himself at all costs. In short, it is not merely what the Lord allows, but man makes it serve his lusts, his luxury, everything except God.

Scripture being witness, however, nature does teach. "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made." (Rom. 1:20.) "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork." (Ps. 19:1.) The work must declare the Craftsman. And the Worker, we are assured, is He who is called the "Word of God" because He is the Revealer. (John 1:1-3.) So creation must be part of this revelation.

Now, if this is true, as it surely is, the continuity of Nature and Revelation is assured. It does not mean, as one writer suggests, that the book of nature is the simpler to read, the surer to follow, and therefore the more authoritative. The opposite is true. For if nature teaches by parable, no parable is the first authority on doctrine. Its importance is still hard to exaggerate. But it leaves Scripture as the one place where God speaks to us "face to face."

Creation — in earth and air and sea — will confirm him in witnessing that God is everywhere and does everything. His conclusion from this, however, leads him dangerously near charging God with being the author of evil. If he means only that God is all-powerful, everyone would agree at once. But the words that follow show his gloomy mind and distorted view dwelling on the dark side of nature. It is in this that his danger lies.

Man's sin has not only brought ruin on himself. It has spoiled his home and dragged down all the creatures that depend on him... God made man, unlike angels, the centre of a system of things. The whole of this lower creation either suffers or rejoices with its head. This is its time of suffering. "For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now" (Rom. 8:22)... When Christ comes, bringing with Him the whole glorified family of God, creation will be set free. Its bondage to corruption will give way to the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

In verse 6 Job challenged the main position his friends had taken. They said that God always rewards godly people with prosperity here on earth, and brings disaster down on the head of the wicked. Job held that it was not so. There were cases where robbers prospered and men who provoked God were left secure. As proof he pointed to what can be seen in the lower creation — beasts, birds and fishes. He meant, we suppose, the disorder that man's sin has brought in even there, so that the weaker meet disaster and destruction from the stronger — and all of this by God's permission.

This is also in answer to Zophar's argument. Zophar had spoken of the greatness of God. The wisdom which Zophar had tried to impress upon him is so elementary that the beasts themselves know something about it.

The fish of the sea have practically no voice, and do not know how to talk — yet they too will declare it to you. That is, the whole creation — the lower creation of God upon the earth — is proof that things are not yet according to God. Do they not prey upon one another? Do not the great swallow up the small? And is not man the great dealer of death to beasts and birds and fishes, and everything, for his own pleasure? I do not mean merely for food, but to please himself at any cost. In short, it is not only what the Lord allows: man makes it serve his lusts, his luxury, everything except God. … "Who among all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?" He cannot deny that the Lord has left it in this way.

Notice how "the Almighty" (how God had revealed Himself to the fathers) appears freely in the speeches of Job and his friends, as well as "God" as such. The writer uses "Jehovah" only when he is describing God, or introducing Him as speaking. The one exception is in Job 12:9.

You will notice that this name has not appeared after Job 2 (except in Job 12:9) in the historical part. But now, before the history itself closes, the book brings Him in again. We have Him speaking with His authority and in His relationship — that is exactly what "Jehovah" means. This is not God in the abstract, but God in relation to man on the earth.

Creation — in earth and air and sea — will back him up as he witnesses that God is everywhere and does everything. The conclusion he draws from it, however, brings him dangerously near to charging God with being the author of evil. He would appeal to age and experience to confirm it. If he means only that God is all-powerful, everyone would agree at once. But the words that follow show that his gloomy mind and distorted view are dwelling on the dark side of nature. That is where his danger lies.

They are not so much a revelation of truth as a question to Job, asking whether he knows the truths that lie all around him in the vast creation of God. That is what makes these words of Jehovah so wonderful. He speaks, not "in a tongue no man can understand," but in the language of nature — about the earth, the sky, the clouds and rain, and beasts and birds.

In verse 6 Job challenged the main position that his friends had taken. They said that God always rewards godly people with prosperity here, and brings disaster on the wicked. He said this was not true. There were cases where robbers prospered, and where people who provoked God were safe. To prove it he pointed to what we can see in the lower creation — beasts, birds and fishes. He was pointing, we suppose, to the disorder that man's sin has brought in even there. The weaker meet disaster and destruction from the stronger, and God permits all of it.

"Why," he says, "the very beasts know more than you, and prove more than all your speeches!"… The whole creation — the lower creation of God upon the earth — is a proof that things are not yet according to God. Do they not prey on one another? Do not the great swallow up the small? And is not man the great bringer of death to beasts, birds and fishes, and to everything else, for his own pleasure?… "In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind" — and yet He allows them to break forth in this lawless way.

Other passages in the Old Testament show us that soul and spirit were not confused. They were known and kept apart… Job also contrasts soul and spirit. The first belongs to every living thing. The second is found in man alone. He asks, "In whose hand is the soul (nephesh) of every living thing, and the breath (rooagh) of all mankind?"

God did not only put the rest of the animal kingdom under man here below. Man alone also had his life direct from above. "The LORD God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature." No other animal became a living soul in this way… This is why man alone stands in direct moral responsibility to God. He must give account for the things done in the body to the God who gave him his soul and spirit in this way.

Creation — in earth and air and sea — will confirm him in witnessing that God is everywhere and does everything. His conclusion from this, however, leads him dangerously near charging God with being the author of evil… If he means only that God is all-powerful, everyone would agree at once. But the words that follow show his gloomy mind and distorted vision are dwelling on the dark side of nature. It is in this that his danger lies.

Men delight in the thought that they are independent of God, but it is a delusion, they are not, for in Him we live and move and have our being. He is the faithful Creator, giving to all life and breath, and all things. His mercies preserve us. Every breath of our nostrils and every throb of our feeble hearts is by God's power and ordering.

Quoting Job's own words (Job 12:11), which seem to be in the form of a proverb, he reminds his hearers that the ear is the way words are received and tested, just as the mouth is for food. So let them go with him in his search into whether Job's charges are true or false. In the same way our Lord appealed to His hearers, "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" and the apostle says, "I speak as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say."

"Does not the ear test words?" — do you think I cannot hear? — "and the mouth taste its food?" — that I cannot discern with my own palate?

In verse 6 Job challenged the main position his friends had taken. They claimed God always rewards the godly with earthly prosperity and brings disaster on the wicked. He insisted it was not so. There were cases where robbers prospered and those who provoked God were secure. To prove this he pointed to what can be seen in the lower creation — beasts, birds and fishes. He meant, we suppose, the disorder that man's sin has brought even there, so that the weaker meet disaster and destruction from the stronger, and all of it by God's permission. Just as the mouth tastes food, so his ear had tested their words, and found them worthless.

Someone may reply that the ear tests words, as the mouth tastes food. I admit that in Job 12:11 the comparison is not only allowable but intended. But suppose the health of the judge is bad, and his taste is therefore spoiled. He may want food that is unwholesome, he may call bitter sweet, and sweet bitter; he may call evil good, and good evil. What then? Where is his ability to judge? He may turn to his neighbour to decide for him. But suppose everyone he knew was suffering from the same illness — then no one could help him in the slightest.

One symptom of this sickness — and the leading one — is that the sick person is always absolutely sure his taste is excellent, and quite able to decide for himself between truth and error. No one can talk him out of it. But where is the standard of truth, by which we may judge what is put forward in this world of many voices? If we have no standard of truth to bring the opinions of men to, we must fall back on our taste. And if our taste is spoiled, our case is indeed hopeless, as far as our natural resources go.

Creation — in earth and air and sea — will back him up in witnessing that God is everywhere and does everything. His conclusion from this, however, brings him dangerously close to charging God with being the author of evil. He would appeal to age and experience to confirm it. If he simply means that God is almighty, everyone would agree at once. But the words that follow show that his gloomy mind and distorted vision are dwelling on the dark side of nature. That is where his danger lies (vv. 7-13).

Zophar spoke with extreme dogmatism, and that no doubt prompted Job to begin his reply on a very sarcastic note. His words, "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you," have almost become a proverb, used against the dogmatism of self-conceit.

God's hand of power holds the life of every living thing, Job says. It holds the breath of all mankind too — not only his own breath, but that of his three friends. He would not let them think of themselves as detached onlookers, free to judge others without being judged themselves. With his ears he tested their words, and he tasted what was fed to him, to discover whether it was palatable or not. So he sets Zophar's claimed wisdom aside by telling him: "Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days."

"Does not the ear test words?" — do you think I cannot hear? — "and the mouth taste its food?" — that I cannot use my palate? "Wisdom is with the aged." There again he shows how little he was inclined to condemn where there was wisdom. He allows that with the aged there is wisdom — "and in length of days understanding" — because there is experience that nothing else can give.

"With Him is wisdom," he says. He turns to God; for, after all, a man profits only a little. "With Him is wisdom and strength" — while the aged man grows weaker as he grows wiser — "He has counsel and understanding."… "He leads counsellors away stripped, and makes the judges fools." No doubt those counsellors and judges were noted for their knowledge, and people took them for wise men too. But there is always a limit in this world, and there is often disappointment where you most rest.

The ancients in this verse are men of long experience. We must not think that these ancients are the same as the New Testament elders. An ancient in Israel was simply a wise old man with long experience. An elder in the New Testament is a brother in Christ who has the Holy Spirit living in him. Of course, an older believer today may not be as spiritually wise as a younger one. But the older one certainly has more experience. Wisdom in the sense of spiritual intelligence joined with spirituality is not always tied to age or long experience.

No doubt it may often happen, as in the case of Job and his friends, that old men say very foolish things. Grey hairs and wisdom do not always go together. It often happens that aged men rely on the mere fact of their years and take a place for which they have no power at all — moral, intellectual, or spiritual… None of that touches the fine moral feeling in Elihu's opening words: "I am young, and you are very old; that is why I was afraid, and did not dare to show you my opinion." This is always right.

It is folly and blindness to set young against old. Better to help the young profit from an experience of great value that they lack. Let the old admire the energy of the young, and let the young acknowledge the beauty of the grey head.

With his ears he tested their words. He tasted what they fed him, to find out whether it was good or not (vv.10-11). So he sets Zophar's claim to wisdom aside by telling him that "wisdom is with aged men, and with length of days, understanding" (v.12).

"With God are wisdom," he says. He turns to God; for, after all, a man gains only a little. "With God are wisdom and might" — while an old man grows wiser, he grows weaker — "he has counsel and understanding."

"If He breaks a thing down, it cannot be rebuilt" (v.14). In fact Job had been broken down, but he did not realise that the One who broke him down could also rebuild him, though Job could not do it. If God imprisons one, man cannot release him, though God can do so.

"He leads counsellors away plundered, and makes fools of the judges." That is, He strips counsellors of the value of their counsel. So man's wisdom comes to nothing, and the judges become foolish. Man's authority becomes as useless as his wisdom. Men that others counted dependable lose their speech and their power to help. Even elders known for their experience find their good sense taken away (vv.17-20).

There are all kinds of change. So there is nothing here that shows the settled judgment of God. Everything among men keeps flowing and changing. Nothing, then, could be more foolish than the basis of the three friends' attack on Job.

In verses 12-13 Job seems to have Bildad's statement in mind (8:8-9). He now declares that with God are wisdom and might; He has counsel and understanding. But what follows is only one side of God's doings. It is true in itself, yet it is the darkest pessimism, which suited his mind.

It is indeed a great but very dark picture of God's power. We can only shudder at the dreadful sight. Job's misery has cast a grim light over all God's greatness. How different is the language of faith: "God is our refuge and strength … therefore we will not fear … Be still, and know that I am God" (Ps. 46).

He did not claim to be better than his friends, but he was certainly not below them. Yet he admitted that God's ways puzzled him, being far above him and out of his sight. So, as verse 3 shows, what he wanted was to speak to the Almighty and reason with God, instead of spending his time reasoning with his friends.